Monday, March 28, 2005

Monday Notes...

I said I was going to go to the UGA Anime Club's MDOA (Mega Days of Anime) thing this week, Monday-Thursday 5-10pm, but since I was out late last night I didn't go today. I can almost guarantee I would've fallen asleep sometime ;) I will be going tomorrow, though. Schedule is as follows:

5:00pm Re: Cutie Honey 2
6:00 Sukimono ga Suki Dakara Shou ga nai
6:30 Orguss 02: 5
7:00 Orguss 02: 6
7:30 Bleach 2
8:00 Airmaster 2
8:30 Here is Greenwood 3
9:00 Here is Greenwood 4
9:30 Monster 1

When asked of the effect of fansubs on the market, Greenfield described it as "devastating." He then went on to describe the current state of the Japanese market, in which less then 24 hours after a fansub is put online, it is already being sold on bootleg DVDs. He also mentioned that Japanese studios are looking to American companies increasingly more for production money, and that ADV is currently funding, in some manner and portion, nearly 1/3 of anime shows currently airing in Japan.

Discuss.

Today's News:
Rozen Maiden ~traumend~ Details
AIR "Summer" Special

And discuss these stories too, if y'all want ;)

Posted by Matthew at March 28, 2005 5:55 PM

I don't know about fansubs coming out on bootleg DVDs but I WISH they did come out on DVDs. It'd be better then the "Engrish" subtitles we get. I think Greenfield is trying to make it seem like a bigger problem then it is but whatever.

I also think I'm pretty caught up on stuff (dealing with anime/manga) but seriously I live in NY (Brooklyn) but whenever I visit Chinatown (about once every two/three months) I've never seen a fansub on a DVD. Of course, tapes can probably be found easier.

Posted by Hostile at March 28, 2005 6:13 PM

It's a big problem where I live (near the 'Chinatown' section of Toronto and area). There are so many shops selling bootlegs there's no place for legit companies.

The few DVDs that I do have that are bootleg I bought unknowningly, when I first started out collecting (I thought they were R2s. No wonder they played so easily..^_^)..my copies of Kanon have the fansub subtitles, word-for-word, plus about a dozen or so spelling mistakes per episode. Timing is pretty bad on some of them, too. Presumably the Chinese subtitles are better, but all I understand in them are the character's names '^_^.

There are a couple legit stores like Best Buy, Blockbuster, or the comic shop I go to that have a token collection, but I end up mail-ordering *all* the anime I get, since these shops either (a) only stock 'mainstream' titles like Yu-Gi-Oh, Dragonball Z, etc., (b) stock nothing but volume 4 of a particular series, (c) I already have it, or (d) They don't have a given title in stock.

I can understand why this sort of thing comes across as a threat to distributors here, but I have a hard time blaming fansubbers who, at one time, were instrumental in helping to build the industry to what it is today. When people get to be 65 and retire, do we kill them off because they are no longer part of the workforce? I hope not.

Now, personally, I'd pay to have a few good Japanese TV stations stream here in N.A. but there aren't enough of me to make that practical, I think. ^_^

As a backup, simultaneous releases in Japan and N.A. would be real cool, although not only is that not happening in the near future, 'hardcore' anime fans aren't going to watch these shows in - Ack! - English. At least not 'till they've seen them in Japanese. And we're back where we started..

Ah..I guess that's all I can say without going over the same arguments again that have already been hashed to death here and elsewhere. So I'll stop. :p

Posted by Satoshi at March 28, 2005 7:15 PM

>>my copies of Kanon have the fansub subtitles, word-for-word, plus about a dozen or so spelling mistakes per episode.<<

Which group that did Kanon did your subtitles? Ishin's version was pretty damn good. I also don't think E-F's version (they did a pretty good HnGo) would be any bad. AI & AF's version might be the one but I think they were also part of The-Triad so maybe not.

Posted by Hostile at March 28, 2005 7:28 PM

Well, I remember E-F's Vandread being pretty dire you know.

Posted by Shiroi Hane at March 28, 2005 7:31 PM

It's important to consider the source and their biases when reading things like this. ADV was the first US company I know of that funded Anime production in Japan. While I'm not certain, I believe they are still the only US-based company doing so (Geneon, etc. don't count since their parent companies are in Japan). ADV has always disliked fansubs, they've just started getting more and more vocal about it in recent years, and far more agressive, a move that I think will backfire on them.

As far as his "statistics", I'd say he pulled them out of his hind end. It doesn't really make sense, even bootleggers are going to wait for 3-4 episodes to be released before bothering to make DVDs to sell! Think about it, assume you're either a consumer who doesn't know or doesn't care about it being a bootleg or not. Would you buy a DVD with one episode on it even so? I sure wouldn't.

I also think it's wishful thinking on his part that Japanese companies are looking to US companies for production money. There's plenty of high profile titles that US companies aren't interested in (Air for instance), and there is a matter of pride. I can't see the majority of the Japanese animation industry suddenly being willing to ask foreign companies to fund their work.

And finally, ADV's funding a THIRD of all shows currently running? Man, I bet that'd take about 10 minutes to disprove. There's a LOT of shows running that even the anime community ignores, especially the really long running ones (is Doraemon still running for instance?) That's just, man, even for ADV and Greenfield in particular that's something else. He seems to think ADV is the sole reason anime exists any more. That would explain their attitude at times, so maybe that's really how he feels.

Posted by Maestro4k at March 28, 2005 8:35 PM

Hostile: I should be clearer here - the fansub (don't remember who it was..) was quite well done. No mistakes that I recall. The bootleg, however, not only ripped off the fansub, but did so poorly and with many mistakes. I can just see some guy in Taiwan with a remote control in one hand, transcribing the dialog with the other..

Maestro: Mr. Greenfield used some big weasel-words there - "in some manner and portion". If ADV gives $X to company Y, for some reason or another, then, 'in some manner and proportion', they're funding *all* anime that company Y produces. It sounds like a way to make people misconstrue ADV's influence in Japan. But if other people don't nitpick his statement and jump to conclusions, well that's not *his* problem, right? Especially not if it's to his advantage..

Posted by Satoshi at March 28, 2005 8:49 PM

Satoshi: Yep, I think I summed it up pretty well in saying he thinks ADV is the sole reason anime exists nowadays, although it might be more accurate to say he wants everyone else to think ADV is the sole reason anime exists.

I'm quite sure it'll do just fine if ADV disapeared for some strange reason though, much to Greenfield's chagrin I'm sure. Still, what moxy, most politicians don't even make such wildly exagerated claims. Perhaps he should run for office.. :P I'll do a post about it tomorrow probably, might as well draw as much attention as possible to the sheer ludicrousness of this claims. :)

Posted by Maestro4k at March 28, 2005 9:11 PM

ADV has the reputation of being the most heavy handed of the companies doing R1 DVDs.

I'd take anything coming from them with a grain of salt :/

Posted by kiryuu at March 28, 2005 10:06 PM

Cool that Rozen Maiden's manga-ka will be involved in the story and that it's original to the anime. Maybe they'll do more with N-Space this time, the first series barely touched on it. :)

Posted by Maestro4k at March 28, 2005 10:55 PM

I think the part of the Kamikazecon article that people who don't post on AnimeOnDVD missed is the part where Greenfield announced that their shoujo titles will now be available throught their website *exclusively* That means if you want vol.2 of Princess Tutu (as I do), you have to order it from the ADV website.

ADV has a bad habit of rousing anger in anime fans, but this is really the last straw for me. I hate credit cards, and if I'm forced to order online I wouldn't want to order through their website. So, personally speaking, I can stick with all the good stuff Geneon, Bandai, FUNi, Media Blasters etc. are licensing, and fansubs.

Posted by V at March 29, 2005 12:53 PM

V: That's interesting, I've seen something similar to that from them before although it was labeled more of an experiment. When they initially released Nadia and one other title (I forget which one it was) it was web-only as well.

Putting that together with Greenfield's insane boasting and their problems with their manga division last month it looks like ADV may be having more problems financially than they are admitting. I wouldn't be surprised if the little manga fiasco didn't put them pretty heavily into the red, and they've always been agressive in licensing new titles. (Many would say too agressive, at least they don't take 3+ years to release popular series any more.) It shall be interesting to see what kind of new title announcements come out of ADV this summer at the Cons, bet there will be fewer than in past years!

Posted by Maestro4k at March 29, 2005 2:43 PM

The opinions below might deter from your own. Oh well.

What a load of crock. All Greenfield wants is control. If he doesn't control the market, then he doesn't roll in the greenbacks. I would like to see which behind he pulled out of the statistic regarding fansubs. "Devastating" sounds like a mighty strong word to use. If it is truly "devastating," how come I don't see Greenfield out under the highways looking for a job? But I digress. Everyone wants money. Everyone wants control. If it takes thirty of my hard-earned bucks to buy four episodes, then I think the price is just not right. Unless there is a "dedicated" channel, unlike ADV's meager Anime Channel dub offerings, showing the latest shows such as Mai Hime, Mahoraba, Samurai Champloo and Air twenty-four hours a day nonstop, then I do not see any reason to stop downloading fansubs.

Posted by Ladholyman at March 29, 2005 3:50 PM

Little tidbit about Rozen Maiden R2: "Träumend" is German and means "dreaming"

Posted by Mentar at March 29, 2005 4:06 PM

Hehe, no one will accuse me of liking ADV (I've already gone at them once on my blog in the few weeks it's been up), but to be fair the Anime Network has started a subtitled anime block, or is about to. I read a press release about it a little while back. I also understand that we won't get a channel with all subs before one with all dubs, if ever, just because it's easier to build market that way. I can be realistic too, but ADV (and Greenfield especially) aren't very good at being realistic often. Their manga publishing fiasco shows that pretty well.

On pricing of DVDs... I would have agreed with you back a few months ago before I (ironically enough) got a DVD burner. Now that I've dealt with that for a bit and have experience with compression and what it can do to the image, I wouldn't buy a DVD with more than 5 episodes unless I KNOW it's a DVD9 blank (which holds about twice as much as a regular DVD5). Four is really about the limit to have a really good, high quality, bitrate and image on a DVD5 if there are any extras on the disc taking up space.

That said.... There's not really any good reasons I know of to not go with DVD9s, especially when you're pressing them instead of burning blanks. (Dual-layer blanks are still a pain.) Yes it will add to the cost of authoring the DVD. Yes it will add to the cost of menus and everything. But... You can get more episodes per disc, keep the bitrate sky-high and even get some extras on there too. Heck, I'd even pay a bit more than $30 for a DVD like that if it had 6-8 episodes on it minimum.

It won't happen though, LadHolyMan's right, ADV, and Greenfield in particular apparently, are quite greedy. They'll only give us what we really want when everyone refuses to buy what the give us in significant numbers. Shoujo stuff will be back on a wider market more than likely as it'll probably bomb big time being web only. (Knowing ADV there will be no discount for buying it direct from them off their website, even though all those distribution and middle man costs go away.)

Posted by Maestro4k at March 29, 2005 7:48 PM

I'd care about the Anime Network if I were able to receive it, but I doubt I'd watch it anyways if it's dub for the most part :P

I'd like to know when the second Princess Tutu DVD will be out.. I don't think I've heard the reason for the delay yet..

It'd be nice if everyone followed FUNimation's example with Fruits Basket. A full 26 episode series on 4 DVDs, with extras and everything, same price as your usual one. But I doubt that'll happen...

Posted by Matthew at March 29, 2005 8:44 PM

I hate that ADV has their shoujo titles as web-only. I've been looking forward to Petite Princess Yucie being released, since I thoroughly enjoyed it on fansub. I will probably not buy it through their website however, since I work for a Best Buy and get an employee discount, plus no shipping fees. I'd rather wait awhile for them to release to stores (hoping that they do), to where I could get it much cheaper than paying the full price.

Posted by J Harrell at March 29, 2005 9:28 PM

Matthew: Any idea on the bitrate on those Fruits Basket DVDs though? Actually I may have one, I'll check, I just remembered I may have bought one used cheap a few years back. Yep, sure enough, Vol. 1, 6 episodes and a few extras (mainly textless OP). It's a DVD9, around 7GB total size, video bitrate ranges mostly between 4mbps and 5.5mbps. I've seen it as high as 7mbps in a few places. Looks GREAT! Super encoding job. Now that is the way to do a release! ^_^ The only complaint is the audio is 256k, which is strange with nearly 2GB free. Maybe it's to keep consistency across volumes, a couple have to have 7 episodes.

J Harrel: That does suck! I wish I knew someone from Best Buy/etc. ^_- Seriously though, maybe (I doubt it, but we can hope right?) ADV will lower their prices some on the web only titles. I'm also looking forward to more Petite Princess Yucie. :)

Posted by Maestro4k at March 30, 2005 12:08 AM

It's a pity they would do that to Princess Tutu, that series deserves to be seen by a LOT more people, rather than just be shelved to only be bought online by the people who even know who the hell ADV is. Tutu is really a great show to show on kid's channels, even without botching.

Interestingly, the asian branch of Animax, Animax-Asia, has been airing Princess Tutu for a few months right now. They show it at some nice times and have reruns as well; it's really a great show for kids and also for adults...

And regarding Greenfield's statement about the funding 1/3 of anime shows thing, I think it's somethign like they fund 2% of the shows, and those companies use that money to produce parts of others shows, so he thinks his statement holds true...

Posted by wao at March 30, 2005 2:11 AM

Yeay at least someone agrees with me. Funimation did do a great job with Fruits Basket, but I wonder when the other companies will follow suit. Not likely though. Oh well, as long as I have this blog to read up on spoilers on Mahoraba and as long as Froth-bite doesn't stop the subs I will be happy. Mahoraba is gearing up to be one of the most nerve-calming show of the season. Rozen Maiden 2nd Season - thumbs up!

Posted by Ladholyman at March 30, 2005 1:30 PM

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